tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7577433100233207637.post1672344819400901673..comments2023-01-27T12:49:52.871-08:00Comments on Confessions of an Elder: The William Clayton DeceptionAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08527302146988002738noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7577433100233207637.post-6378885242861366442015-06-08T06:22:24.863-07:002015-06-08T06:22:24.863-07:00Excuse my poor presentation in words, currently ha...Excuse my poor presentation in words, currently have a baby bunny in my hand and dog on my lap, trying to type one handed on my iphone lol. <br />Joy joy joy :) Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08254368671677154252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7577433100233207637.post-50681164806235407462015-06-08T06:19:08.460-07:002015-06-08T06:19:08.460-07:00In 2012 i took myself off for a walk after church ...In 2012 i took myself off for a walk after church and sat myself on a fallen tree trunk. I opened up d&c 132 and prayed. I asked to know the truth of it. With pen in hand i ticked each part that the holy ghost bore witness of and crossed through any part that i had no witness of. I was speechless and shocked. It was a fabrication of truths and lies interningled to make up a false document. I havent been able to tell anyone but i now know.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08254368671677154252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7577433100233207637.post-36345824446214530022015-06-08T06:10:02.684-07:002015-06-08T06:10:02.684-07:00My understandings now:- by prayer. Joseph smith tr...My understandings now:- by prayer. Joseph smith truly was gods prophet, emma died telling the truth. Joseph had one wife. Brigham young is a wicked man and is not innocent of josephs blood on his garments. <br /><br />During 30 years of leadership, brigham young was able to bear forceful influence upon the membership and get them to do as he pleased including altering journals, histories and fabricating documents and scripture. <br />This wasnt easy for me, took alot of guts to approach heavenly father to ask ... My whole existence was leaning upon the church as the one and true church. I didnt want to know different but i wanted to know truth. I do not believe that just because brigham young and his twelve apostles lied (or died if they dared not lie) that it makes the church as a whole bad. I was converted by the truth, i wasnt taught about any lies, i was taught of joseph smith and the book of mormon and i had a witness of those and i felt great at church ... I felt great as i was surrounded by others who were like me, they didnt know amy different and so good people filled the church and the holy ghost could witness of goodness, blessings given by purehearted men, patriachal blessings given by good men ... Good is good no matter. As long as people share truth, truth fills us with joy. The church never taught me the false stuff so my experirnce was good. <br />Noone knows any different until they look closer. You can see beauty from afar, you dont usually see the cracks or faults til you get up close... Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08254368671677154252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7577433100233207637.post-57711171755784861782015-06-08T05:53:45.725-07:002015-06-08T05:53:45.725-07:00Hi Benjamin, don't worry. Its great you have b...Hi Benjamin, don't worry. Its great you have been enlightened. I ignored 30 years of people trying to tell me stuff and it finally twigged after some extraordinary trials which brought me to finally ask God about Poligamy and brigham young and what happened after Joseph and hyrums deaths. <br />My conclusion, the church is full of good people all trying their best and is all we have. Its a wolf in sheeps clothing, but has many sheep in its pens and those sheep are what make the church special. Until we are spiritually guided to new leadership, we have only this church. And until individuals seek their own confirmations, they are not ready to lose the ideal that they are members of the one true church. Thankfully, we have the holy ghost and we have prayer, we know the teachings of Jesus, we know by power of prayer what is right and wrong and so we can go about life living that way, and we can write in our journals for our posterity to read when they are ready. The moment the church tries to reintroduce poligamy as a commandment, then its time to completely separate. Poligamy has never been ordained of God. And brigham young has blood on his garments. Nowhere in scripture has it been introduced as a commandment. Even Abraham Jacob and David were not instructed of God. There are no commandments, there was free agency, there was cultural ways, there was sin and mans own ways, but never a commandment from God or his son Jesus Christ ... The first man mentioned in the bible as having two wives, was a wicked man. If it was of God, he could have created several women for Adam in the garden of Eden instead of making the well known phrase of a man leaving father and mother and cleaving unto his wife as if she and he were one. <br />There has been nothing but grief associated with poligamy. There was no joy in the days of sarah with hagar, there was no joy in the days of rachel and leah with their handmaidens. The gospel<br />Is about Joy and none of these actions were derived from God. I have read many books, journals, histories, scripture. Truth always ends up getting defiled by men, they end up tweaking things to their own benefit. There has never been a time of many years of goodness, only perhaps in the book of mormon for a while after Jesus has visited them ... And after jesus had visited the apostles after his resurrection ... <br /><br />There will be a people to greet jesus at his return, it just wont be those who everyone expects. Those who are influenced to know truth by the holy ghost will hear his voice, hopefully the good that have been led astray to believe falsehoods, will be blessed to open their ears and hear and open their eyes and see which is truth and which is false. Took me from 1985 til 2012 to open mine, now im free... Bewildered but free. No longer chained down to hold to beliefs that i felt were wrong but confused as to how if the church was true. <br />Well the truth was truth back in 1844, but it got hijacked and carried away. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08254368671677154252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7577433100233207637.post-44763427421863728862014-12-07T21:07:21.339-08:002014-12-07T21:07:21.339-08:00Part 2 Reply to Benjamin by Kyle
Yes; we can wai...Part 2 Reply to Benjamin by Kyle <br /><br />Yes; we can wail on Brother Brigham for polygamy (which polygamy has now been removed), but give him props for teaching the sanctity of marriage, and that it is Ordained of God for a man and a woman. Yes; we can wail on Brother Brigham for adding divisive dialog to The Temple Endowment Ceremony in addition to what Brother Joseph taught (which divisive dialog has since now been removed); but give him props for continuing to build Temples so that the Saving Ordinances of the Gospel of Jesus Christ for those in The Spirit World could be had by more people living in different locations as Temples continue to dot the world. Yes; we can wail on Brother Brigham for teaching Adam was God (which Adam God theory has since now been removed); but give Brother Brigham props for teaching and baring Testimony of Heavenly Father as the Father of our Spirits, Jesus as our only savior, and the sacred Mission of The Holy Ghost. Yes; we can wail on Brother Brigham for withdrawing the Priesthood Ordinances from African-Americans which Brother Joseph originally allowed (which ban has since now been removed); but let us give Brother Brigham props for continuing to send out Elders and spread the Message of The Restoration. Yes; we can wail on Brother Brigham for his participation of the Mountain Meadows Massacre (AKA the Battle at Mountain Meadows); at least in the cover-up (which the Church has finally at least issued a statement of regret); but let us give Brother Brigham props for defending Zion against a federal invasion. Yes; we can wail on Brother Brigham for altering some of the history and writings of Brother Joseph; but give him props for leading the Saints west to Utah and seeking to preserve Zion when she was on the ropes. Yes; we can wail on Brother Brigham for not allowing a civil marriage before a Temple Sealing, which has broken the hearts of many non-member relatives, which has thus made it nearly impossible to teach said relatives because of built up walls of resentment (which hopefully will be reversed soon); but give Brother Brigham props for continuing to exalt The Book of Mormon as the Word of God and spread it throughout the earth. <br /><br />With love and respect, I encourage you to come back to the LDS Church. Reclaim your Priesthood that you given set apart to have before you came to this earth; reread your Patriarchal Blessing. The Lord will sort out polygamy on the other side of the veil. <br /><br />To think that satan would stand idly by while Jesus Restored His Church to the earth along with the Ordinances of The Temple, and the Priesthood of God, would be unwise. He went after Brother Joseph and Brother Brigham hard; just as satan goes after us. We pray and plead God will cut us slack through The Atonement of The Christ; we should cut Brother Joseph and Brother Brigham some slack too. <br /><br />Let me defend Brother Brigham here some more. Sure, satan knocked Brother Brigham and several other great men around with polygamy; but they did the best they could given their mortal issues; I feel spiritually that Brother Brigham and the Prophets down from him to Prophet Monson were Called of God and the Restoration of Priesthood Authority still flows down through them. I feel the warmeth of The Spirit as I so type. God does work with us with our weaknesses, and the times we go amiss; stumbling around is part of His plan for our growth. <br /><br />I love your website; I find it uplifting. I too love the glorious defense of Brother Joseph by Brother and Sister Price of the RLDS. You would enjoy the trailer to my Indie movie; “Sisters Go Ye trailer 2” on Youtube. <br /><br />Numbers 6:22-27<br />Wisdom of Solomon 16:26<br />Praise Ye The Lord,<br />Brother Kyle<br /> <br /><br />Kyle Kenley Kopitkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08335130884239946950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7577433100233207637.post-9151093816672766042014-12-07T21:05:29.093-08:002014-12-07T21:05:29.093-08:00Hi Benjamin,
Part 1 due to word limit:
That is a...Hi Benjamin,<br /><br />Part 1 due to word limit:<br /><br />That is a classic question you ask at the end of your reply of “What will you do with your knowledge?” Once, one understands that Brother Joseph was a clean (but of course not perfect) man, one has to consider Brother Brigham. For me, an active LDS fellow, I am fine understanding that God works with our imperfections; those were hard times back then and it made men do some hard and difficult tasks. <br /><br />A year before I joined the LDS Church, I was reading a few books at the post library at For Sheridan; those books were harsh against the LDS Church and Brother Joseph. The Spirit opened my heart and mind and I understood that God validated Temple Ordinances, keeping the Sabbath Day Holy, going to Church each Sunday, payment of Tithes, and the Sacred Laws of Chastity. When I came to the pages about Joseph and polygamy, I felt spiritually strongly that he did not engage in polygamy. <br /><br />The trouble for the LDS Church; my Church; is that if Brother Joseph did not write Section 132 as a revelation from God, then Brother Brigham manufactured it (or someone else did). I think Brother Brigham was doing the best he could given his mortal imperfections. He was dealing with trying to keep Zion afloat and he had to make some very tough decisions. I have had to make some hard decisions in my own life; sometimes in rare difficult circumstances, obedience is like trying to fit a large round peg in a smaller square hole. <br /><br />I love Brother Joseph and Brother Brigham; I am not willing to throw either under a bus. I can’t because I had a strong Spiritual Witness about The Book of Mormon, and I have had several significant Spiritual Witnesses throughout my journey since joining the Church. I know the Garment is Sacred and reverenced by God; I know The Ordinances of The Temple are as well; I know because of the spiritual experiences I have had, and continue to have. After I had my Spiritual Witness from God by The Holy Ghost that The Book of Mormon was true (meaning to me the Restoration was a reality), my dear Daddy prayed over The Book of Mormon; he did not receive the same witness that I did. I like to think that God, in His infinite wisdom, had a different path for my Daddy to follow while here on earth; so I wish everyone the best as they seek to follow Jesus on their own path during mortality. <br /><br />After Brother Joseph transferred to The Spirit World, he came back and told Brother Brigham to tell the Saints that the most important thing is to have The Spirit with you, as The Spirit will guide you in all things. After Brother Brigham transferred to The Spirit World, he also came back and told the next Prophet the same thing. We have to go to Church each Sunday and partake of the Sacrament to have The Spirit; we have to magnify our Callings; we have to serve and read our Scriptures; there is no other way. <br />Kyle Kenley Kopitkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08335130884239946950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7577433100233207637.post-51267900289864062482014-08-21T18:20:24.152-07:002014-08-21T18:20:24.152-07:00It's sad to know that the wickedness of Brigha...It's sad to know that the wickedness of Brigham Young may have been the biggest obstacle to the growth of the church and that it was Brigham Young that principally caused Joseph to known for good and evil among all nations. Emma claimed that Joseph once told her that if Brigham Young became the leader of the church that Brigham Young would lead the church to hell. It seems that she was correct.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08527302146988002738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7577433100233207637.post-3743475757925347242014-08-19T11:22:51.862-07:002014-08-19T11:22:51.862-07:00Where would we be without polygamy. My guess wou...Where would we be without polygamy. My guess would be about 300 million members. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624853971129396721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7577433100233207637.post-22206800436937912732014-08-08T09:28:04.333-07:002014-08-08T09:28:04.333-07:00I'm just glad somebody read it. I initially a...I'm just glad somebody read it. I initially abandoned the church because I was absolutely disgusted with the stories surrounding Helen Mar Kimball and Fanny Alger (I didn't abandon the church because I was drinking, in drugs, or engaged in immoral behavior). It was simply impossible for me to believe that God would instruct his chosen Prophet to engage in such lascivious Warren Jeffs behavior. The LDS Church has acquiesced to the fact that the Church believes that their 37-year old Prophet told a 14-year old that she needed to marry Joseph so that her family could make it to the Celestial Kingdom. The LDS Church also believes that Joseph, Hyrum, Emma, et al. repeatedly lied about "spiritual wifery" in order to cover up the "sacred" doctrine. <br /><br />When I first heard about the Price's book, I was extremely doubtful. The more I read, the more I understood that they were telling the truth. Polygamy originated with the Cochranites, Brigham Young (a proven adulterer), and Bennett (an absolute piece of trash). It all finally made sense. Joseph was told by Moroni that Joseph's "name should be had for good and evil among all nations." Who would have guessed that it was his own followers that caused Joseph's name to be known as the founder of Mormon abominations. It was Brigham Young and Bennett that forever stifled the growth of the church, not the Lord with a horrible commandment. <br /><br />The issue for me is, now what? I have found Rock Waterman's book helpful: http://www.amazon.com/What-Expect-When-Youre-Excommunicated/dp/0692256989/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407514867&sr=8-1&keywords=alan+rock+waterman<br /><br />What will you do with your knowledge?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08527302146988002738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7577433100233207637.post-83160467293755406342014-08-08T08:13:00.087-07:002014-08-08T08:13:00.087-07:00Thank you so much for your reply and for clearing ...Thank you so much for your reply and for clearing Joseph Smith's name from polygamy. I am so glad I found your post.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13762190324877573294noreply@blogger.com